Hi all, I'm in the very early stages of researching getting a Radical. Looking in the "neighborhood" of a 2006 SR3. And I'm trying to determine if this is even feasible on an upper-middle-class salary? Because, from what I've seen, Radical owners seem to be millionaires, which I'm not.
My experience
I've done about 20 or so HPDE/lapping days in various cars: rental Ferrari F430, rental Lamborghini LP560, Corvette C5Z06 (few years back when I owned one) and lately I've been renting race prepped (MY2005) Mustangs from my local track.
My plan
I guess the first season (2021) with the Radical, I would continue to participate in HPDE/lapping days until I got use to it. Then, once I saw I was comfortable with it (this could take multiple seasons), I would like to enter the local racing series at my local track, which is open to Radicals and Open wheel cars. It's a 6 race series spread over the summer months (I live in Ottawa,Canada, so we only get about 6 months of driving)
My research / Questions
- I've found that I can pick-up a 2006 SR3, with Fuel Injection (FI) and dry-sump between $35K to $40K CDN. Which I would being purchasing in "cash", it won't be financed. Now how hard/easy is it to sell these cars? I realize this is a very niche / expensive sport, but am I looking at years to offload if the need arises?
- I also read that these cars require an engine tear-down/rebuild every 40 hours at a cost of $3000USD for a non-certified shop or $6000USD for a certified shop, correct me if I'm wrong? I created an entire separate thread for more detail on this topic: Engine rebuild
- Another potential issue is logistics getting it to and from the track, I don't have a truck or trailer. Are these things I can rent from UHUAL on a per use basis?
- Consumables don't seem too bad:
- I've read that brakes last several seasons. and I can't imagine they cost any different than a street car?
- And If I'm doing mostly HPDE, slick tires can last me an entire season at a cost of around $1500CDN, is that correct?
- What about oil changes, I've read it should be changed pretty often both engine and transmission/diff oil. How much would that be?
So this circles back to my initial question, can this be done on an upper-middle-class salary? or am I crazy to even consider this car at my income level?
Yes, I realize a lot of factors play into your response, i.e. how much debt a person has and how much the person spends. But suffice to say, other than my mortgage (which is relatively low), I don't have any consumer debt (no car loan, no credit card, no LOC loan). And with COVID-19 no travel plans for years.
Hi Jameel (@jamolah), there is a great saying about racing... Speed cost money, and you have to know how fast you can afford to be. Or how fast you WANT to afford to be. Radicals are a very cost effective way to go fast, but speed does cost money. The short answer to your question is yes, these cars are affordable to upper middle class drivers, but you should understand what you are getting into before you dive in.
I always recommend that people get the newest car with the lowest hours that they can afford, and that it is worth paying a premium for a car that has a documented maintenance history. If you can stretch your budget a bit I would recommend targeting an SR3 RS (second generation car) with a Life ECU. A good second gen car can be found between $45k and $55k, depending on the condition and engine hours. The first generation cars are great cars, but the second generation cars are worth the extra cost. Also, if you plan to race the car in one of the Radical cup series you should check the rules to see if there are limitations on which cars are eligible. For example in the North American cup series only chassis 400 and higher are eligible to compete.
Your questions about the engine cost I answered in you other thread where you asked specifically about the engine
Regarding logistics, these cars have very low ground clearance and are challenging to load into a trailer until you have developed a process that works for you which includes long ramps, etc.. I would not recommend trying to load the car onto a Uhaul trailer so it is worth figuring in a trailer into your budget. You can rent a tow vehicle, but it is important to have a trailer that you know works.
Consumable costs are very reasonable for these cars. As you mentioned brakes last a long time and while learning the car you can get 8 to 10 days out of the tires if you aren't trying to break the track record. Oil and GDU changes should be done every 10 hours and they can be done at home if you have some mechanical skills.
Charley
Did he say 8 to 10 days out of the tires? 😱 😳
I gotta go make some money!
Charlie did a great recap on the cost and he is the best source of knowledge. I will add another consideration. IMHO these cars are very forgiving and easy to drive fast (or up to the limitations of the driver!). The car will let you know when it is on the edge and let you know early enough to save it. I understand some prototypes will bite you at the limits and that is not my experience with a Radical. It is a lot of fun to drive.
Tires fall into the "how fast you can afford to be" category!!!
So after seeing the breakdown on this post and the Engine maintenance post, I've realized this is out of my price range.
I think a more reasonable compromise, for me, will be a Lotus Elise (that I'll eventually super/turbo charge).
@jamolah, Sorry to hear that you won't be joining us, but you are always welcome. I am glad we were able to help you make an informed decision. The Elise will be a fun car also. One word of warning, don't drive a Radical, because you will be hooked 😉
Charley
I found some "one time costs" of upgrades and repairs with my recently purchased SR3 RSX. The car runs great and overall is very clean, however just to get the car on the track one time has cost thousands of dollars above the purchase price. Fortunately I am still ahead in terms of the cost of a brand new car.
Before first track day (unsure of the exact cost of some items):
- upgrade clutch to spin-safe clutch ($2k)
- new dry and wet Hankooks
- 3 hour tech inspection. Fluid change, brakes flushed and filled w Motul 660
- 2 hour setup for Hankook tires and me
Subsequent upgrades/repairs after first day:
- upgraded to stronger rear axles ($1200ish)
Near future (after about 12 hours of use):
- rebuild engine and convert short stroke to long stroke engine
- rebuild gdu
- repair ecu
- new fuel cell
- new harnesses
- suspension maintenance as required (uprights?)
This gets me close to new car status, and I hope low operating cost for a couple of years. I can handle the 40 hour rebuild costs, but the combination of tires, maintenance, and track fees do add up. I am getting more like 4 days of use out of my dry tires, so budgeting my track days is necessary to contain the annual cost. I think I will drive it about ten weekends per year, and race Spec Miata in SCCA as much as possible. That is five sets of tires.
I also purchased several new tools, and I decided to purchase an air compressor and tire changer and balancer.
Let's be honest -- these cars are not that cheap to operate when you factor in tires, repairs, upgrades, and 40 hour rebuilds (but to me still worth it). A much lower cost option would be an Ariel Atom or Spec Miata which does not require engine rebuild every 40 hours.
@davidf are you racing or just doing track days? I have been running Time Trials with NASA and have been putting 1200 - 1700 miles on before cording them out. Times degrade a little but it is still really fast.
Just track days, but I am not waiting to cord the tires before changing.
After that initial fall off you can run them for along time without experiencing much more degradation. I have set all my track record a with old tires so far.
Yep that Hankooks. The rears on my first set that had 1700 miles still have plenty of life left. Only the fronts corded.
@davidf, One of my favorite sayings is that Speed cost money... you have to know how fast you can (or want) to afford to be. The great thing about the Radicals is that I haven't seen any other way to go anywhere near this fast for less money.
I agree with Garrett, if you are doing track days you should be able to get tires to last a lot longer than four days. When I first got my car I typically went about 10 days on a set of tires. As I got faster I changed them about every 6 to 8 days and I never corded a set of tires. I just kept using them until I felt they were getting too slow / hard.
Charley
@davidf - I'm a few months ahead of you, but have found the same thing w.r.t. costs. I bought a similar vintage car as you and have done most of the items on your list plus some. In my 10 months of ownership, I've put in about 40k on top of the car to get it into good shape. I've been doing more and more of the servicing myself, which will definitely help keep costs down going forward, but discovering the true running costs has been an eye opener.
Regarding uprights, I had one fail (left front) last weekend during a race. Luckily it didn't cause a crash, but it also damaged my lower wishbone and brake disc. This is $2300 worth of parts that I am in the process of installing now. There was another guy whose upright failed the same day during qualifying (right rear) so I would say these should be at the very least scrutinized after every weekend to look for signs of failure and replaced on-time per the maintenance schedule.
@azwcat -- do you have a photo of the broken upright? Is there an area on the uprights that reveal stress and imminent failure?
This is one of those 40 hour lifing parts that I would like to stretch to 80 to 100 hours.
