What are consumable and maintenance costs like for the Radical? It seems like the SR3 is the most common so I guess let's start there but I'll admit I don't know much about them at this point. I've been running new Corvettes at DEs and open track days but the consumable costs are really high and I'm curious how the Radical compares. Brakes, Tires, Fuel, engine maintenance/rebuild, how often and what are the costs. Thanks!
I started tracking Corvettes also and had a lot of fun doing it. But the Radicals are an entirely different world of performance. When it comes to consumable costs it really depends how hard you drive the car and what you are using it for. I used my car for DE's and I typically had one of the top 2 or 3 times of the day, often the top time. But I have to admit that isn't because I am an amazing driver, it is because the SR3 is such a capable car. Compared to my Corvette I was typically about 15 seconds a lap faster in the SR3.... and that was with lots of performance margin. The cost of consumables is very reasonable. Because the car is so light brakes last a long time. I literally had my front brakes on the car for almost 5 years and they still had lots of pad life left. Tires cost about $1,300 per set and I was getting about 8 to 10 days out of them. If you are racing or constantly striving for the track record you can burn through tires and brakes much more quickly, but for DE's you get a lot of life. It is recommended that you change the gear oil and the engine oil every 10 hours of operation. The engine oil is Silkoline Pro4 and if I remember correctly it takes about 7 quarts. The gear oil is NEO and uses about .75Q . For fuel you have to use 100 race fuel which is almost $10 per gallon, but the car only burns about 1 gallon every 10 minutes. So overall the consumables are very reasonable. But, the bigger cost is engine overhauls. Engine wear on these cars is highly dependent on how much time you spend in the upper RPM range. Because I wasn't ever trying to get the track record I didn't push the car to red line at every shift. The overhaul interval recommend by Radical is " Under race conditions, the engine should run for no more that 40 hours before being rebuilt. Engines which are not raced, regularly cover over 90 hours without requiring attention". The cost of overhaul depends where you get it done. It is my understanding that there are a lot of good shops that will do an overhaul for ~$3,000. If you bring it to Spring mountain (The only certified PowerTec overhauls shop I am aware of in the US) the cost is likely more like $6,000 to $9,000 depending how much work needs to be done. For me it is worth the extra cost to bring it to the Factory certified shop because they overhaul these engines all the time and they are aware of all of the recommended updates. Also they are the only shop outside of the Factory in England that can "Seal" and engine which is required if you are going to compete in the Radical Cup series. For example when I last had my engine overhauled I installed the latest engine mount, shift rod, and pistons because the Factory found ways to improve reliability. I am not confident that the non factory shops would know about these improvements.
Those are the major things I can think of. Let me know if you want any additional information.
Charley
Thanks Charley. It sounds like when you factor in the engine rebuilds the overall costs are pretty similar between the Radical and the ZR1 (~500/hour by my math). That doesn't include any brake consumables for the Radical and assumes major mechanical issues with the ZR1 are covered under warranty.
While I am just doing HPDEs I do tend to run the car hard and put a lot of time on them running in multiple groups as an instructor. I'd be looking at at least one rebuild a year.
Thanks for your reply and for creating this forum. I'm going to keep lurking.
I’m happy to help. The other aspect to consider is that it is really nice to have a dedicated track car for a few reasons: 1) you don’t destroy your beautiful (and expensive) street car. (In hindsight I wish I had kept my Corvette on the street). 2) Your ZR1 will depreciate much more than a used race car because of the track use. 3) You don’t have to do the pre-track conversation and post track conversation (tires / wheels / brake pads, etc) for each event. 4) There is nothing like driving a purpose built light weight, high downforce, paddle shifted race car on slicks... although ZR1s are also amazing cars and will be a lot of fun on the track.
Decisions like choosing between a ZR1 and a Radical are the best kind of decisions.....Because, they are both amazing machines so you can’t go wrong.
Charley
On fuel, I read the manual and it does state higher octane for the SR3. however, I've been running 91 street gas as recommended by several people with no ill effects so far. Perhaps I'm missing the top end of the performance curve? No detonation that I have noticed.
There is a PowerTec certified shop in Canada, but it seems his workload is such that his turn-around time is way out there. I believe he did my engine before delivery in December, but a buddy with an SR8 waited months.
Dan, what engine do you have? I wouldn't recommend doing that in a 1500 because I believe they run a compression level around 13:1. Where are you located in Canada? I believe Team Stradale near Chicago has a certified shop. I have always had my work done at Spring Mountain who has always done a fantastic job for me. Their engine shop is slower in the hottest months of the summer so they can get engines done quicker during that period of time. That works great for the California guys because it is so hot here at the tracks in the middle of the summer, but that might not work for someone in Canada where it is likely prime track time
On fuel, I read the manual and it does state higher octane for the SR3. however, I've been running 91 street gas as recommended by several people with no ill effects so far.
Does the SR3 have an ECU and fuel injection so it can adjust for lower octane fuel?
On fuel, I read the manual and it does state higher octane for the SR3. however, I've been running 91 street gas as recommended by several people with no ill effects so far.
Does the SR3 have an ECU and fuel injection so it can adjust for lower octane fuel?
Yes, the newer cars (~2010 +) have fuel injection and many of the earlier cars alsohave FI (it was an option). They also have ECU’s but I don’t know how well it can compensate for the lower fuel octain. It would likely result in simply lower performance in the SR3’s with the lower compression 1300 or 1340 engines, but in a 1500 with ~13:1 compression it is a larger risk than I am willing to take. These cars only burn about 1 gallon every 10 minutes on the track so for me the cost savings isn’t worth the lost performance and Risk to the engine.
Charley
On fuel, I read the manual and it does state higher octane for the SR3. however, I've been running 91 street gas as recommended by several people with no ill effects so far.
Does the SR3 have an ECU and fuel injection so it can adjust for lower octane fuel?
simple answer is no, Most newer Radicals are ECU controlled FI, but without a knock sensor, the ECU can not detect knock from low octane fuel and reduce the timing.
On fuel, I read the manual and it does state higher octane for the SR3. however, I've been running 91 street gas as recommended by several people with no ill effects so far.
Does the SR3 have an ECU and fuel injection so it can adjust for lower octane fuel?
Yes, the newer cars (~2010 +) have fuel injection and many of the earlier cars alsohave FI (it was an option). They also have ECU’s but I don’t know how well it can compensate for the lower fuel octain. It would likely result in simply lower performance in the SR3’s with the lower compression 1300 or 1340 engines, but in a 1500 with ~13:1 compression it is a larger risk than I am willing to take. These cars only burn about 1 gallon every 10 minutes on the track so for me the cost savings isn’t worth the lost performance and Risk to the engine.
Charley
I was told that I would get about 110 minutes out of the 20 gal tank or about 5.5 minutes/gal. This has been my experience on the track. I'll ask about the higher octane. And I used up one set of brake pads and three sets of rubber in about 8 months of fairly heavy HPDE track use.
The fuel injected cars in general don't run a lambda sensor or knock so don't adjust for fuel.
In the UK you can run a high octane pump fuel of 97/98 octane with no problems, I don't know what this equates to in the USA/Canada.
Not sure how much this will add to the conversation this far after the start date but...
Just started this year with 20+ track days. Engine had about 70 hours at the start. Tried a couple of races but the rest were lapping days.
The 1340 engine runs pump gas; because you can get 94 octane here vs 93, that's what we use. I'm several seconds off race pace so gas consumption is lighter, using about 20 l/5 gal /25 minutes. There was no noticeable wear on the brake pads or rotors all season. Oil changes are frequent. As most of my events are 4-6 hours on track, it had to be changed every time. The oil alone is U$20 quart/litre plus filter, labour and whatever else they find. Tires would get about 25-30 sessions of lapping before they made me nervous.
The engine and GDU are in for a rebuild now along with some bodywork. The body takes a beating from rocks and debris in the wheel wells. It'll need attention every few years.
I think that's well under what it costs to run a Corvette on slicks for the same number of hours. Faster too.
Not sure how much this will add to the conversation this far after the start date but...
Just started this year with 20+ track days. Engine had about 70 hours at the start. Tried a couple of races but the rest were lapping days.
The 1340 engine runs pump gas; because you can get 94 octane here vs 93, that's what we use. I'm several seconds off race pace so gas consumption is lighter, using about 20 l/5 gal /25 minutes. There was no noticeable wear on the brake pads or rotors all season. Oil changes are frequent. As most of my events are 4-6 hours on track, it had to be changed every time. The oil alone is U$20 quart/litre plus filter, labour and whatever else they find. Tires would get about 25-30 sessions of lapping before they made me nervous.
The engine and GDU are in for a rebuild now along with some bodywork. The body takes a beating from rocks and debris in the wheel wells. It'll need attention every few years.
I think that's well under what it costs to run a Corvette on slicks for the same number of hours. Faster too.
Great addition! The only part I didn't follow was you fuel usage...
Thanks for adding to the conversation.
Charley
Gas consumption is dependent on speed. The big kids here are running 1:20-1:22/lap and use 1 Litre/minute. At 1:26-1:27 I'm using 0.8 L/m and was getting 0.66 L/m at ~1:30+/lap. In practical terms, I get one 25 minute session out of a 20L/5 Gal can of gas. Used to get 30 minutes out of a can when I was slower.
Learned the hard way that you need an extra 10 L in the tank for slosh and to keep track of time.
Gas consumption is dependent on speed. The big kids here are running 1:20-1:22/lap and use 1 Litre/minute. At 1:26-1:27 I'm using 0.8 L/m and was getting 0.66 L/m at ~1:30+/lap. In practical terms, I get one 25 minute session out of a 20L/5 Gal can of gas. Used to get 30 minutes out of a can when I was slower.
Learned the hard way that you need an extra 10 L in the tank for slosh and to keep track of time.
With the price a racegas that would not be cheap! I'd be burning 10G in 40mins at $10/gal for 100octane. I am surprised these little 1500cc motors are so thirsty.
