I was on track this morning during first DE session at Road Atlanta. At full throttle towards end of back straight away at full speed, engine cut off. Got red message across smart steering wheel screen: Engine Trip-Fuel PR
I got a tow back to paddock. Any idea what is going on? The message wont clear. FYI - car tank was completely full of fuel. The car turns over and may actual run for 1 second, but dies. Seems like it is getting spark, but not fuel. Is there a fuse or trip somewhere, any ideas?
Dan, I am making calls to see if I can find someone that can help.
It f curiosity how many hours has it been since the fuel filter was changed?
I have never changed fuel filter, dont even know where it is located. I did have full SM engine rebuild done last summer. I dont know what fuel pressure sensor looks like or located. I do know where the pump is located. See below screen shot from PTMON, no fuel pressure. I suspect it is pump or sensor, which I dont have either here at Road Atlanta.
Sorry for the late response, but I haven't been able to get hold of someone to help. I agree with @azwcat that it doesn't sound like the fuel filter. I agree with you that it is likely the fuel pump or possibly the pressure sensor. If I remember correctly the fuel pressure sensor can either be on the fuel rail or on the filter/pressure regulator housing on the left side of the engine. One way to test if there is any pressure would be to attach a length of clear line to the fuel line (after you take it off of the fuel rail) and put the other end in a container to catch any fuel. Then see if anything is getting pumped.
Sorry I couldn't help more.
@raider89 - Hi Dan,
Not sure if I can help. There have been quite a few changes made to the SR3's electrical control system during the XX model roll-out so not all of the cars will be the same and that might make any detailed advice tricky.
I've just got a new XX (delivered into Australia in March 2023) that was one of the last XX's made. It came delivered with a Life ECU, and a Life Racing PDU. I suspect your car might have an AiM PDM (PDM and PDU are essentially the same thing and control the electrical systems in the cars replacing the older 'relay' systems in the RSX's and earlier cars.
In any case, you have done the right thing and checked what the ECU to see what the measured Fuel Pressure is using PTMON. You should also be able to see Fuel Pressure on at least one of the AiM Data screens that you can cycle through on your steering wheel. (for my car it's on the main screen as well as on another screen that is configured just to check through a lot of data from the ECU and PDU... a bit like you can see it PTMON)
As others have said - the fact it is showing zero pressure almost certainly means it isn't the filter... so could be;
- A sensor fault (my fuel pressure sensor is housed in the top of the alloy 'filter/regulator' housing which is mounted on a chassis rail up near the front of the water radiator and near the firewall. It's a screw in sensor)
- A PDM fault or trip (I think the new PMD's and PDU's have the ability to trip a circuit offline if the current draw is too high (like a fuse blowing in the older cars) I don't have any experience with how to fix this is=f this is the problem.
- A dead fuel pump
One idea would be to try to force the system into 'pump out mode' and see if you can force the pump to run
You are probably headed home by now, so the urgency may have passed. The suggestions on pumping out would be the same thing I would do first. If you don't have a pump out connector installed on your fuel line to the fuel rail, you should be able to find a way to disconnect that line and direct the fuel into a fuel can with length of clear hose. There is a sure-seal connector on the left rear of the chassis. If you put 12v on that connector it will run the fuel pump even when the master switch is off.
Getting to the fuel pump is a moderately big job. You have to remove the seat and left side pod or at least disconnect it and swing it away so you can access the fuel cell on the left side of the car. I think you have to remove the fuel cell cover behind the seat -- rivets and some screws. There are connections on the left side of the cell and the right side also but my memory is foggy. You will be able to tell once you get in there. You have to get the empty cell out and onto a table. From there you need to carefully remove the fuel soaked foam without tearing it and without losing the exact order of the foam pieces which are about six inches wide and shaped like the fuel cell. In the middle you will find the pump. This is for the XX. If your tank has the baffle upgrade, the foam pieces will have been cut about five inches from the bottom of the cell and a thin baffle installed between the bottom and top cell foam pieces. If you don't see the baffle, you will want to get that upgrade kit installed before re-installing the fuel cell back into your car. The baffle kit allows you to run the fuel down to about 1/2 gallon.
Depending on your confidence in doing this, you may want to drop your car off at a Radical dealer to diagnose and repair. What I have mentioned above does not isolate the problem but will help if you need to replace the fuel pump or reconnect the harness to it.
Thanks for all the responses. I did talk to a few people as well as Radical (dealer) race team, fix was not possible at the track on Sunday unfortunately. As for comments above about using smart steering wheel to help understand pressure issues, it is worthless. See photo, the red screen can not be cleared to see anything using the dial.
What is this? It is certainly part of the fuel system.
FYI - my car does not have fuel cell, but standard aluminum tank as I do not race (just HPDE). So, I am still unclear and ready to fully learn and understand the pump location, sensor locations, and/or relays. I must learn how to diagnose issues and have spare parts. Frankly, I had never heard of any fuel delivery issues yet from anyone.
This issue cost me almost full day on track at Road Atlanta, plus the extra Monday run day at Barbers - all on top of a 2,213 mile round trip drive from TX. With all that being said, my first full day on track at Road Atlanta was amazing. I truly love that track and running in Red group with many staggering fast guys.
@raider89 - G'day Again Dan,
You should still be able to 'force' the pump to run (assuming the pump itself isn't dead) as myself and DavidF suggested. This is a simple and easy diagnostic test as it should immediately tell you if the pump is working or not. There should be a sure-seal connector (see picture of a similar fitting below) on the left hand side of the engine bay near where the plug that connects the tail lights into the main electrical loom is located (see photo of where mine is located) - just apply 12 volts to that (might need to make sure polarity is correct) and if the pump is 'alive' it should force the pump to run. You will hear the pump running if you are in a quiet enough area... It's easiest if you have a 'pump-out' fitting installed (the factory supplied option is a Staubli branded connector) or you could do as Charley suggests and just disconnect one of the fittings on the fuel rail (under the airbox at each end) and temporarily put a hose on that to put it into a suitable fuel container.
This whole test would take less than 10 minutes to set-up and do, and will tell you a lot about your problem... basically telling if the pump is running or not.
Regarding the red alarm screen on your dash... it depends on your dash software configuration on how that alarm should be able to be cleared, but in my case that alarm can be cleared simply by pressing the 'Mem/OK' button. I'm guessing you have tried that, and it could be different in your configuration... but is really easily changed using the AiM supplied software. This particular alarm is one that is sent to the dash directly from the Life ECU. It is one of three of the 'main engine protection' trips that the ECU has (one for Oil Pressure, One for Coolant Temperature and the one for Fuel Pressure which you are seeing). All of these cause the engine to stop immediately, and shouldn't let the engine re-start until the alarm/trip has been reset. In your case, assuming there is a problem with the pump or sensor, or something to do with a connection, etc, then the ECU will see the problem as soon as you turn on the Master Switch (on an RSX) and also press the 'Power' button on the PDM pad (on your XX) on the dashboard, which puts power to the fuel pump and starts the AiM dash/logger. At that point your ECU will not see the required fuel pressure and will therefore put this 'Fuel Pressure' Trip in place to prevent engine damage. So your challenge is to work out why the ECU isn't seeing fuel pressure (could be there is no FP.. because of a pump or electrical issue, or that there is fuel pressure, but the ECU isn't seeing it for some reason like the sensor is unplugged or not working...or...??)
Regarding the second picture in your post above, that is the Regulator/Filter/Sensor housing I mentioned in my original reply to you.... The silver 'barrel' sensor in the top of the alloy housing is the fuel pressure sensor (see photo of mine below with an arrow to the sensor)... and if your pump is OK then it is this that I would suspect next as a potential root cause of the issue. This housing also has the fuel filter in the bottom of it, plus the fuel pressure regulator... that would be something else worth checking (but as it's more mechanical in how it works it's less likely to have completely failed in my opinion.... so I would check everything else first)
The thing I would check first with the sensor is that it is still connected properly with the electrical loom.... but it could be that the sensor itself is faulty.... The easiest way to check that would be to get your dealer or a mate with another SR3 to loan you their sensor and try installing that...
Regarding your tank and pump location, if you have an alloy tank then it will probably have a VW/Audi style pump in top of it like this.... To get to it you will need to remove the side stays from the roll bar hoop, remover your seat and then remove the small cover (about the size of an A4 piece of paper) on the main cover over the fuel tank... at least that will let you look into that cavity and see where the pump is located... most likely you will have to remove the whole/main cover and get the pump out of the top of the fuel tank.... like has been removed to get this photo.
Hope this helps!
That is super helpful, I will begin diagnostics and resolution during my hot summer break now and get to know all these parts much better.
