looking into a radical, picking the right one?

Hi Brad, Welcome to the Registry!  There are several things to consider when deciding which is the best Radical for you.  One questions is your level of driving experience and you have to decide "How fast you can (or want to) afford to be.

Lets start with the experience question.  Moving from a street based car to a light weight, high downforce, paddle shifted car on slicks is a big transition.  A really fun one! 🙂  I came down a very similar path to you.  I was tracking a C6 Corvette that had lots of power so I thought that I should go directly to an SR8, but when I talked with some experienced Radical owners they all recommended that I first get an SR3 and learn to drive the car properly before moving up to an SR8. I took their advice and am glad that I did.  I have seen many people with high power street cars not take this advice and jump directly to an SR8 and many of them ended up selling the car within a year.  Most people find the SR3 to be a great way to get into a downforce car.

The next question is about cost.  Speed cost money, and you need to know how fast you can (or want to) afford to be.  You should also decide how you are going to use the car.  If you plan to use the car for track days the answer could be very different than if you plan to go racing.  If you are doing track days and want to keep your ownership cost down I would recommend a gen 2 or gen 3 SR3 with a 1340 engine.  Gen 1 cars are great also, but they are becoming harder to find parts for them.  The reason I started with a 1340 is because they are less stressed then the 1500s and they can go twice as long between overhauls (80 to 100+ hours).  For track day use you might want to consider getting a car with an aluminum fuel tank ( if you can find one) because the aluminum tanks are good for the life of the car while Fuel cells need to be replaced every 5 years.  

If your wallet allows you to go a bit faster you could move to an SR3 with a 1500 engine.  They have ~40 more HP and are a second or two faster on most tracks.  With that said, in my 1500 I have been passed by 1340s with better drivers, so they are both very capable cars.  The 1500s have high compression (~13:1) and everything in the engine is more stressed then the 1340 so you should overhaul the engine every 40 hours.  If you know the history on the engine and know that it has been driven gently you can go higher than this, but there are risks to doing this.

If you are interested in a 1340 SR3 I am currently selling one that has a fresh engine and GDU from Spring Mountain.  I am not pushing that car, but if it fits your needs it is a great car and it is located in Southern California.  If a 1340 car isn't right for you I would be happy to help you find a car that better fits your needs.  Also if you find a car and want a second opinion on the car feel free to contact me and I will be happy to tell you what I see.  

Charley

@charleyhradicalsportscarregistry-com

thanks for the reply charley! i actually sent you a text message last week looking for a car and you sent me the sr3 and the sr8, i am very interested in that sr3 but was really looking at only spending about 40k right now and i saw u had it listed for 49.9k didnt want to go and low ball you. 

as far as experience goes i have been around/racing cars since i was about 15 (32 now) been on track multiple times either drag racing or circuit, also track a yamaha r6 for fun, i drive in the advanced group and usually hang right up with the top guys, i also do a lot of karting (tag and shifter karts) from the beginning i felt a sr3 would be best for me even tho i love the power of the sr8, the sr3 would cut my tracking costs down substantially. i do not plan on racing the car at this time, i usually do about 6-10 track days a year at willow springs but plan on venturing out to buttonwillow and chuckwalla if i can get some people to join me. would love to work a deal for that sr3 you have  

@bradspeed114, I would recommend stretching your budget a bit (if possible) to get a good car.  There are times when spending a little more up front can save you a lot.  For ~40k you are looking at a gen 1 car or an early gen 2 car with out the Life ECU and Life paddle shifting.  I am willing to come down a few thousand dollars if that helps.  Just about everyone I know that gets a “bargain price” car ends up spending more than if they had just purchased a solid car in the first place.  You are welcome to come and see the car if you want.  Also if this car ends up being a good fit for you, I would be happy to go with you to Willow Springs to show you how to operate the car.  Big Willow is very exciting in an SR3.  It takes a little while to convince your brain to do it but you keep your foot flat on the pedal from turn 5 at the bottom of the Omega all the way to the entrance of turn 9.  You will be taking turn 8 at 135+MPH and turn 2 (horseshoe) at ~115 MPH.  😀

But again, if this isn’t the right car for you I am happy to help you find one that better fits your needs.

Charley

@charleyhradicalsportscarregistry-com  big willow is definitely a blast, i drove there a few weeks ago in my s2k and loved it, we are planning on going to streets of willow on the 24th.  you are right, i should just suck it up and spend a little more on the right car to start with rather then buy something i have to upgrade and tinker with. does your car have air jacks already installed? also do u have any spare wheel sets? i am itching to get back into a radical asap, driving that sr8 2 weeks ago has totally killed me wanting to drive my other cars 🤣 

This is a common problem with Radicals.... They "Recalibrate" (destroy) your opinion of just about any street based car.  🙂

This car is track ready so you could be at the track with in tomorrow.

My car does not have extra wheels or jacks but they of course can be added.  Air jacks are great but I can show you how to easily jack up the car without them. 

Charley

I agree that it is definitely worthwhile to spend more to get a better car.  It can be difficult to know the complete history of a car, but spend the extra effort to get as many details you can on all levels of repairs and maintenance that have been done.  Familiarize yourself with the recommended maintenance schedules from Radical.  Most owners, including deep pocketed arrive-and-drive types will not adhere strictly to the maintenance intervals.  This can be acceptable for certain items and depending on how well the car is otherwise maintained and examined, but it adds some risk for the prospective buyer.  Also, understand that no matter how much due diligence you do, there will always be unknowns and they can get costly fast.  If you are mechanically inclined and don't mind working on the car yourself, it will be a big advantage in keeping costs under control.  This forum is an amazing resource for DIY folks.

I would prioritize cars that have lower chassis and engine hours and cars that have been maintained by Spring Mountain.  The SR3 is a fine choice and incredibly fast with the right driver.  Street cars don't have a chance. 

I have to add my 2 cents as I was where you are a little over a year ago.  Charlie is an awesome resource and won't steer you wrong.  He helped me find my car which is by far the best track car I've owned.

While the SR8 is an awesome car the maintenance cost is steep.  My wife and I run our SR3 two up in mostly track events and I ran 3/4 of a race season with SCCA last year.  We do have a 1500 and it works really well.  It's a little too close to baby seal clubbing even in the advance group at track events.  Being two up and in the advanced group we pass everything like it's standing still.  An SR8 would take even more of the fun out of that.  Now the high horse power cars at least try to hang with us and it makes for interesting conversations after sessions.  There are some of the high horspower cars that will gain ground on the straights but the time you gain under breaking and in the corners will more than make up for it.  An SR8 would make that too easy by eliminating the one area that makes them think they might be able to hang with you.  🙂  

If you end up racing, I'm not sure where the SR8 fits in with most clubs and the cost again may limit your fun.  The SR3 1340 or 1500 fits in well with SCCA P2.  It's not competitive with a nationally prepped P2 car but I was able to win the regional P2 championship with mine last year.  It's a lot of fun qualifying on the front row and having a lot of big formula cars lining up behind you too.  LOL  

Like you I've tracked and also raced tin tops in the past, miata's, an EVO, BMW's etc.  If you're going to do some of your own maintenance you'll find out the car is really engineered well and is a dream to work on.

If I had to do it again, I would have taken a closer look at an SR3 1340.  My pockets aren't so deep and I like to burn a lot of track time.  One thing you'll find out, I believe most of the Canadian cars are 1340's and I've been told most of the club cars are too because of all the time they put on them.  It seems like a lot of the drivers I've come across also just run one set of gears.  If you're willing to change the gear set in your GDU I think a 1340 is probably going to be just as fast or faster at times then the guy that didn't and is running a sub optimal set in a 1500.  Others may be able to shed more light but I've changed mine for a couple of different tracks now and it's made a substantial difference.  I've not run a 1340 so can't say for sure if it more than makes up the difference.  A set of gears is around $600, labor to change is 30-60min depending on your ability.  That's a lot less than buying and maintaining a 1500.   

Posted by: @charleyhradicalsportscarregistry-com

This is a common problem with Radicals.... They "Recalibrate" (destroy) your opinion of just about any street based car.  🙂

This car is track ready so you could be at the track with in tomorrow.

My car does not have extra wheels or jacks but they of course can be added.  Air jacks are great but I can show you how to easily jack up the car without them. 

Charley

how much would the air jack conversion cost?  i looked up getting the BG quick jack to make things easier at the track. i think i am pretty set on getting a sr3 and would like to talk further about coming to see your sr3 in person and working out a deal. 

Posted by: @trakmnky

I have to add my 2 cents as I was where you are a little over a year ago.  Charlie is an awesome resource and won't steer you wrong.  He helped me find my car which is by far the best track car I've owned.

While the SR8 is an awesome car the maintenance cost is steep.  My wife and I run our SR3 two up in mostly track events and I ran 3/4 of a race season with SCCA last year.  We do have a 1500 and it works really well.  It's a little too close to baby seal clubbing even in the advance group at track events.  Being two up and in the advanced group we pass everything like it's standing still.  An SR8 would take even more of the fun out of that.  Now the high horse power cars at least try to hang with us and it makes for interesting conversations after sessions.  There are some of the high horspower cars that will gain ground on the straights but the time you gain under breaking and in the corners will more than make up for it.  An SR8 would make that too easy by eliminating the one area that makes them think they might be able to hang with you.  🙂  

If you end up racing, I'm not sure where the SR8 fits in with most clubs and the cost again may limit your fun.  The SR3 1340 or 1500 fits in well with SCCA P2.  It's not competitive with a nationally prepped P2 car but I was able to win the regional P2 championship with mine last year.  It's a lot of fun qualifying on the front row and having a lot of big formula cars lining up behind you too.  LOL  

Like you I've tracked and also raced tin tops in the past, miata's, an EVO, BMW's etc.  If you're going to do some of your own maintenance you'll find out the car is really engineered well and is a dream to work on.

If I had to do it again, I would have taken a closer look at an SR3 1340.  My pockets aren't so deep and I like to burn a lot of track time.  One thing you'll find out, I believe most of the Canadian cars are 1340's and I've been told most of the club cars are too because of all the time they put on them.  It seems like a lot of the drivers I've come across also just run one set of gears.  If you're willing to change the gear set in your GDU I think a 1340 is probably going to be just as fast or faster at times then the guy that didn't and is running a sub optimal set in a 1500.  Others may be able to shed more light but I've changed mine for a couple of different tracks now and it's made a substantial difference.  I've not run a 1340 so can't say for sure if it more than makes up the difference.  A set of gears is around $600, labor to change is 30-60min depending on your ability.  That's a lot less than buying and maintaining a 1500.   

 

i have seen nothing but positive things about charley and feel very confident that he will get me setup in the proper car.  i am leaning more toward a sr3 simply for maintenance, i live 2-3miles from the track so i can be there every weekend if i would like. the sr3 would cut cost down a lot compared to the sr8. i also feel i should get used to the big down force car with a sr3 then in a year or 2 if i feel i need more power i can always upgrade to a sr8. 

Track days is wat i will stick to at the moment but would love to jump into a racing org. and get my feet wet there, what state are u located in? 

after the last few weeks of research i believe the sr3 1340 will be the perfect starter car for me, i dont have deep pockets but love to go fast and have fun. i have no problem wrenching on anything (i actually own a local automotive shop out here)  really appreciate everyone replying and giving me info, really hope i can get into a car soon and get to the track, maybe its time to sell the s2000 lol 

I picked an early 2nd Gen SR3 this past fall and I will agree with everyone about Charley, he has been a huge help to me.  

Keep your eyes on different sale forums as there always seems to be a set of air jacks coming up for sale.  I picked up a used set for $750 and installed them and they work great.

I still haven’t even got to drive my car yet as I am in the middle of the country where it is cold and wintry right now...

Good luck,

Jim

Posted by: @jking85

I picked an early 2nd Gen SR3 this past fall and I will agree with everyone about Charley, he has been a huge help to me.  

Keep your eyes on different sale forums as there always seems to be a set of air jacks coming up for sale.  I picked up a used set for $750 and installed them and they work great.

I still haven’t even got to drive my car yet as I am in the middle of the country where it is cold and wintry right now...

Good luck,

Jim

 i have been browsing the for sale forms pretty much every day to see if anything new pops up, as of now i think im pretty set on picking up charleys green/white rs3 if we can make the right number works..

i will keep browsing for air jacks, havent seen any for sale yet but im sure they will pop up eventually, would also like a spare set of wheels 

Brad I was originally going to put a set of air jacks in my car to make things a little easier.  Glad I didn't now as I'd like to keep the car as light as possible.  Also wasn't looking forward to finding a place in my trailer for an air cylinder to run them.

Turns out Radical has a really easy way to lift your car at the track and you don't need the jacks.  If you purchase a low lift jack you can just jack up the rear until the splitter almost touches the ground using the rear lift point that's built in.  Then slide a (4x6x width of car) piece of lumber under the center of the car.  There's a particular place you put it under where a cross member is located.  I just marked the outside of the car with some electrical tape as I have a black car and it blends in.  The car will then balance on this spot.  You can pull all 4 tires off and control the attitude of the car with the jack at the back. 

Inexpensive and really easy to use.  It does the job for 90% of what you need to do at the track.

If you're interested I can give more details.  There are a couple of other posts about doing this too.

The method @trakmnky described works well.  I use it for the cars that don’t have air jacks.  

I cary a lightweight aluminum nitrogen bottle in my trailer to use with air jacks.  It is a really convenient setup.

@charleyhradicalsportscarregistry-com - G'day Charley... what pressure does your cylinder run and how many lifts can you get from something that small??

Rod