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Strange transmission behavior and then

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smooth criminal
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As you can see, when I tried to go WOT out of turn 6 in 2nd, a few times it would kick into 3rd without my input. I couldn't get back into 2nd after this until turn 11. This happened a few times and then I'd get a lot of strange double shifts. Eventually the motor shut off and it said oil pressure issue. Oil was full. Any ideas what the culprit could be? I've driven the car maybe 30min total. 1500cc xx motor with less than 20 hours on it


   
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DavidF
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This must be a difficult one because nobody has answered yet.  I have no idea myself, but I am interested in knowing the cause(s) when you are able to diagnose the trouble.

 

I have had a leaky airbox module that shifted when I put my finger over the hole that was leaking, but nothing like you described.  The only advice I can offer is to contact Radical and ask them for help.  If you can get in touch with Richard (I don't know his last name), he is very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

Please keep us posted on progress.


   
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DavidF
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You can download the Life ECU data to check for trips.  


   
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Clark Darrah
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I was thinking the same thing as David regarding the ECU data.  If you haven't already, read through the Radical Sportscars Data Analysis Manual and look at the parameter definitions beginning on p.13 that will explain the different parameters you can look at regarding gear shifts and the transmission.  This might help narrow your diagnostic focus.


   
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azwcat
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Some of these symptoms are the same as I experienced before I had my engine bearing failure.  I hope it isn't.  The only indicators of failure I got were just some strange shifting behavior like you had.  Had a couple of instances in my first session of the day.  Then had a few more in the second session and when I drove into the pits it finally seized up with an oil pressure warning, the clutch would not engage, and the trans wouldn't shift anymore.  Looks like you are still able to shift your trans, so either it hasn't completely failed or it's a different problem. Take it to an experienced shop to get checked out.  Also, not sure what track you are at and the kind of onsite support they have, but if you have an engine/trans issue on track, it's better to let them tow you back and have it checked out rather than try to restart and go.  You just want to limit any damage if something isn't right.  Just be sure to park off the racing surface!

 


   
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smooth criminal
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So far, the data has indicated that oil temp got high enough that the oil thinned out enough to lose oil pressure. I know the transmission and engine share an oil source, but that wouldn't cause the shifting issues. I don't think the shutdown and the shifting issue are related


   
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CharleyH
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@smoothcriminal, when it comes to shifting issues it is a very good idea to reach out to a Radical specialist because shifting issues tend to go from minor to major very quickly.


   
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Rod Bender
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@smoothcriminal ... I guess begs the question - what's making the oil hot...?

For what it's worth I suspect the two issues will be linked.

... how hot did the engine oil actually get?  I'm guessing it must have been less than 120C as my SR3 RSX had a factory alarm set at that temperature that would have triggered a high level alarm on the screen.  If your engine shut off because of a Life ECU Trip based on low oil pressure being experienced, that means the oil pressure got low enough before you saw any high oil temp warning/alarm.

I've reconfigured the alarms and LED's on my dash to hep monitor this stuff, with all 6 LED's being green now if all the parameters (water temp, fuel pressure, battery voltage, oil temp, oil pressure and ECU 'Trip-State') are in the correct range.  I have then programmed different colours (and rates of flashing for the LED's) when things move out of range (high or low), as well as higher level warning messages on the screen for when anything gets way out of whack!

The objective here, which has been fully delivered, was to make it so a quick glance at the dash to check all lights are green once per lap is all that's required.  It literally takes none of you concentration away from driving... all green-push on!

I've used blue LEDs for things being too low/too cold, and red LEDs when things get out of range (with appropriate message/colour on screen) 

One added advantage of the new configuration is that I have defined 'Status Variables' that allow you to 'log' when any alarms occur (so just like any other 'digital' input you can see when a certain alarm is triggered, where it is on track, which lap, for how long, etc, etc)

I'd be happy to share how I have done that with anyone interested - I have a PowerPoint document that explains what I have done from the 'factory' configuration to the new config I developed.  I can't work how to attach that here... won't drag and drop or copy over... so I could send to peoples email address if it was supplied.

 

 


   
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smooth criminal
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That sounds quite helpful @rjbender. Send me a pm and I'll get it hosted on a webpage for everyone. However, as I type this, there's an attach files button that seems to have this covered, which is what I used to attach this screenshot

Screenshot 20220728 085246

 


   
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Rod Bender
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@smoothcriminal ... yes Screenshots and photos easily 'attach'... I think the problem yesterday was that I still had the file open... it is now attached below.

All feedback welcomed, and I would appreciate any improvement ideas people have.

The first page of the PowerPoint tries to summarise most of the functionality I have tried to configure.

DONT BE DAUNTED IF THIS DESRIPTION SEEMS TOO COMPLEX!  I can promise people that it is amazingly simple to understand once you have your MXL2 re-configured and in use.  I would NEVER go back to the factory configuration.  This allows me to see 'at a glance' that absolutely ALL of the key engine health parameters are in the correct range.  I probably glance at this once or twice per lap, but truth be know maybe even more often than that as it so easy to see whenever I look at the lap time, shift lights, etc.  You would be kidding yourself if you think you don't have time to glance quite often

The fiddly bit is writing the new configuration into your MXL2 using the AiM Software.

The way I have shown the changes I have made is using 'screenshots' from the AiM Software while doing the reconfiguration.  Slides 2 to 14 are pages showing the set up of the new 'Status Variables'.  Setting them up this way (instead of using the simple 'alarms' function as per the factory approach) means that any of these events are captured/logged into the data - which allows you to interrogate what's happening after the session or after each day.  There's also then a neat function in the Data Analysis software that allows you to show 'if' any of these Status Variables have been 'triggered' by lap... that's a really easy way of seeing if you have had any unnoticed alarms during each session (and if there was then on which lap - and then you can go to that specific laps data and see what alarm was triggered and start and work out why, etc) ... just look down the column next to the lap numbers and if there are any '1's' in the column then you have had an issue (...and maybe for just a split second so you might have missed it)... if there all '0's' then your all OK (most of the time true) 

From page 15 onwards, each page in the presentation shows the 'original/factory' alarm config on the left hand side, with the new alarm config on the right hand side... at least you can tell what's meant to be changed and why... 

The order of the pages in the PowerPoint file attached is also a little bit important. It might seem that it would make more sense to have all the 'water temp' alarms in one section, then all the 'oil temps', etc.  I haven't done that as the order of the pages is set up so that the 'highest priority' alarms (like low oil pressure) are set towards the front, and the lowest priority alarms (like low battery voltage) are nearer the bottom.  That is how the AiM system wants them inputted, so this allows you to 'step through' the presentation pages when reconfiguring things.

You will notice I have also included a section at the end on reconfiguring the Shift Lights.  For my application (hillclimbs, and shorter sprint races with standing starts) I needed to make sure that the shift lights were giving me enough time to react even in the lower gears when 'things always happen much more quickly'.  You can see that I now that for each gear I have a more progressive starting point for when each different colour and 'level' of LED's are switched on - this has helped a lot with making sure I get the shift points just right as I accelerate, especially through the first few gears.    

I think there is a way to share my actual configuration using the AiM Software... but I'm not sure if there are any risks with this (I would be worried that some of the alarms, etc aren't transferred correctly and that if anyone had issues I would feel terrible) - maybe our resident expert TrailBrake could comment?? If that would work it would at least allow people to just 'import' this config into their dash to try it (you can easily go back if you save your old configs)

 Hope this is of interest/use to others.....


   
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Rod Bender
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Posted by: @smoothcriminal

So far, the data has indicated that oil temp got high enough that the oil thinned out enough to lose oil pressure. I know the transmission and engine share an oil source, but that wouldn't cause the shifting issues. I don't think the shutdown and the shifting issue are related

@smoothcriminal - interested in how hot the data said your oil got?


   
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Nikki Schumann
(@nick02)
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If you downloaded the data from your run, you should also be able to check if the shifter recorded any paddle triggers... If you see paddles triggered in the data the issue could very likely be a faulty steering wheel loom... I've seen this happen multiple times on cars we run, particularly ones on which the wheel is removed when getting in/out of the car resulting in a weakened plug and/or loom in time.


   
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Clark Darrah
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@rjbender Not to derail this thread too much but thanks for sharing the configuration you did. I was actually in the process of doing the same thing so this will be very helpful!


   
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smooth criminal
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Posted by: @azwcat

Some of these symptoms are the same as I experienced before I had my engine bearing failure.  I hope it isn't.  The only indicators of failure I got were just some strange shifting behavior like you had.  

Welp, I finally got it all apart. The bearings are toast and so are the crank journals. The oil pump gears were rough as concrete. The previous owner swears up and down that I blew it up by putting in the wrong gas. I never put any gas in it but I don't see any evidence of detonation. What I do see evidence of is trash in the oil, destroying the oil pumps, crank, and bearings. The transmission shaft was weird too. 2nd gear was frozen on the shaft. Has anyone heard of that before?

 

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CharleyH
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Wow, Thant is an amazing amount of wear! 😳


   
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