Curious if anyone has some input on this report. Car is new to me, the only reason I pulled a sample was during the drain from the oil can the oil looked terrible. I have had a lot of motorcycles, but it looked bad, shiny metallic dust was very visible as it drained. - Original thought here from interweb research was clutch dust, as there was nothing in the filter that looked frightening.
TLDR - The lead is crazy high, assume this is from the fuel dilution? It is running leaded 114 octane fuel, no idea what a PPM of lead in fuel is but it still seems high.
Some car info;
Car has a total of 21hrs on the motor, I put 7 on the oil, with 2.5 "load" the load calc is a bit dumb since it looks like it needs to be above 25% throttle AND 3000 rpm, it should just be TPS OR RPM and would give a much better calculation of actual idle time. Either way, the car has 15 "sessions" on it (3 track days), our track sessions usually run 20-40 minutes, only 1 or maybe 2 of those sessions were short. I'm also shifting at 9500 to try to help the motor life. This also is very subjective but I feel like I was taking it easy on the motor, as easy as I could anyhow, car is only 0.3 off the lap record and certainly has a lot more in it, the tires are 7 years old!
Oil pressure is well within spec at RPM, but it is around the mid 20psi at idle when the car is warm. Data from cooldown lap on the last session the cars oil PSI was 75 during an extended period of 5000rpm. 90psi at 6000rpm. 3000rpm (pit lane speed limit) oil was 48 PSI. Oil temp started cooldown lap at 79C and ended at 72C.
Some other technical info;
Unsure what oil was in it when I got it, but it was red and looked brand new, we changed it before the first outing, also running a K&P oil filter and upon cleaning it there was no visible "bad" contaminants in the filter, it was just the oil. It was from Spring Mountain, our mechanic here heard they were swapping to a 60wt motul, no idea which one, I don't know a ton about motul but from what I looked at they don't have a 60wt powersports oil, and they don't spec if their motorsport line of 300v is wet clutch compatible or not. In fact they don't seem to spec any API or JASO ratings on any of the 300v datasheets on the website. - Again, original concern was clutch dust.
I ran a compression test both at WOT and idle before I got the results back, all cyl were 215-225 at WOT, idle everything was 130 with the exception of cyl1, which was 75. All 4 spark plugs looked near as makes no difference identical.
My only theory on the fuel dilution is it is either normal, or cyl 1 is causing some issues with the TB being out of balance and not letting enough air in at idle? I can only assume it is out of balance I haven't checked it as no one locally has the syncrometer.
My initial thought was the metallic dust in the oil was from the clutch, which seemed to be the common internet theme, I haven't inspected it yet and likely will when the season is over and the cover gaskets arrive. - But I don't think a clutch is lead, but honestly I have no idea what actual material the clutch fiber would show on a UOA report.
I did also inspect valve clearances, there are 3 that should be adjusted larger, but doing this involves cutting the engine seals on the tensioner. I assume most people who run the 40hr rebuilds just don't worry about it? I'm not racing the car so I don't really care if I need to cut a seal to improve engine life. - Dropped valves are exciting for no one except the engine builder!
I know a lot of actual technical info on the motor is tough since it seems like 99% of the motors get rebuilt by a radical dealer, hopefully as more of the older cars show up and are used as HPDE we'll get some folks with some more knowledge on actually working on the engine. Either way, I couldn't find a ton if any info on the main bearings from any manufacturer containing lead coatings for a Hayabusa. I doubt Radical is using bespoke bearings, but who knows.
I've installed both an oil can and inline water heater, I plan to be very mindful of making sure the car is as warm as possible to reduce idle time for warm up on the next batch of oil running. And idling the car up to 50C oil temperature takes almost 20 minutes, unsure how much this will improve with the heaters but they seem to get water/oil to 40C on their own with minimal effort. I'm hopeful this makes a considerable difference in idle time.
2 of the 3 days it is 90 degrees out, which isn't typical here, our average temperature here is usually low to mid 70s. I've also been dry cranking the engine every startup until it sees oil pressure, I may stop this as that for sure is leading to fuel dilution. It feels unnecessary unless you have just changed the oil.
I likely have 2 days left in the season, I'll pull another sample after that running for comparison.
See attached Radical technical bulletin from Feb2022, it identifies the new 60W oil recommendation. My 1500cc engine just returned from SM after a rebuild and it was converted with new clutch bearing and included a memo for this oil. I purchased it as noted on the internet.
This is interesting, I didn't realize their main recommendation was off road spec oil, the few local guys in town here run the factory line recommended by our tracks shop. It drives me nuts that motul doesn't publish their jaso ratings, or any specs really aside from very basic ones. For example here the amsoil off road products vs street are targeted for better clutch feel with off road. They also have different jaso ratings. I've tried both in my ktm adventure bikes and there is a noticeable difference in clutch operation.
My question from this is why does Radical spec 4t instead of the factory line. Also I don't think we can ignore the fact this could be partially influenced by the fact motul discontinued the 4t 15w50.
I think I'll need to block almost half the oil cooler to obtain 100 degree operation temp. The car runs very cold, but I'll try to focus on getting those numbers up the next 2 outings.
Interesting that Motul are discontinuing the 15W-50, not something I was aware of. @rjbender interesting info reference our conversation, might explain why they have the change in recommendation.
I am not massively up to speed with oil samples and findings but would tend to agree that the lead findings are something to do with the fuel - I do not believe that there are any components containing lead in the engine.
Some info that might be helpful to you:
With fuel contamination in the oil you have run a few hours over the recommended interval which will mean that the results would be worse then expected if following that schedule. They do tend to suffer this a little, a number of used ago Radical tried a Shell engine oil for while and this suffered terrible with fuel contamination which used to destroy the oil properties very quickly causing low oil pressure.
Those seem high numbers for your on track oil pressure. 90psi at 6000rpm with 80° is high. What is the oil pressure like at 9000 - 10,000rpm? Idle seems about right although again slightly high.
The oil in the car when you got it was most likely Silkolene/Fuchs PRO4 15W-50. This was what Radical used before the Motul and one that I still recommend to people.
300V is suitable for use with a wet clutch.
Keep in mind that Radical do not use the exact Suzuki recommended specs for valve clearances. As you mention in general these are never changed between rebuilds, they are set at point of rebuild and are fine until the rebuild comes back around. Unless you are hearing any tapping noises I would not be concerned. Your compression is exactly as expected - I would say 220 psi with WOT is normal. Agreed that the closed throttle test sounds like your throttle bodies are out of balance on that one cylinder. Not a huge concern as once the bodies are open a few % it will not make that much difference. Check that the bodies are not worn and that there is no excess movement in the spindle/bush. This would also normally create a ticking/rattling noise at idle.
Radical use OEM main bearings in the engines. The big ends are a different size in the 1500 (40mm vs 38mm in a 1340 engine) but these are also an OEM Honda bearing.
Thanks Dan, great info! I do agree that the lead is likely from the fuel, we'll see how much of a difference it makes without the dry cranking, I won't be able to balance the TB until the season is over. I'm honestly quite surpassed that the oil is "normal" aside from fuel considering how dreadful it looked coming out, wish I had a photo.
Oil pressure hits 95-100 around 9k rpm. The max pressure seems to be 102, which I assume is the bypass spring opening. This is the pressure it runs when I do the 4k rpm oil check at 50 degrees. I was hesitant to swap to the 60wt as it'll just hit the bypass pressure earlier, and reduce flow. I assume the oil pressures are a bit high for your reference due to the temp being on the lower side of the operating window. If the oil temp could hit 100 the viscosity would be reduced quite a bit compared to 80.
I'll probably just keep an eye on the valves, and look into what stroked race guys are using with SS valves in the bikes for reference if they start to get questionably tight.
I should clarify my motul definitions as well. I grew up racing motocross and 4t was the dirt bike oil, factory line was the street bike, 300v was the good version of each. And then of course the 300v with a photo of a car on it is the one that'll destroy your clutch so don't use it. The factory line, street bike one, that's a 50wt is not discotinued, the off road version was. The off road version comes in a 40 and the 60, which appears to be the recommended oil from Radical as I can't find any info on the street version in that weight.
I forgot to mention the dry cranking, that certainly wont help. As you say I wouldnt say it is needed unless the car has sat for a while. Unplugging the crank sensor (2 pin plug coming out of the generator section with blue and green wires) will stop the injectors firing as the ECU will not see an RPM signal if needed.
Still sounds like slightly higher oil pressure then I would normally expect to see at 80° degrees oil temp but the engines can vary a little.
Thanks for the clarification on the oil. I am still trying to figure Radical's advise on the change of oil grade but increased temps!
