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F1 Style Halo / Center protection

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Rod Bender
(@rjbender)
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@grouparacing ... looks like it will be hard to get into/out of for most people.  I'm 6' and I wouldn't exactly step over that! 

I wonder why the original solution they shared wasn't what went into final production?

IMG 7109
IMG 7110
IMG 7112

   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@rjbender Hi Rod, I just spend some time at Sebring looking at a stable of cars with Stradale. I found 2 areas of significance for me going forward with my SR3 RSX. One is the lack of car halo on a RSX compared to the XXR cars and the other is the the Billet spindles in the XXR cars. I like the idea of what you have explained here for the modification of adding a car halo. I love the engineering of utilizing the 4 conical inserts of the down tubes for structural integrity. Have you or could you provide a simple drawing of what you have described here. Would a SRX be able to compete in Radical Cup with a self designed car halo? The ability to remove and install the original setup would also help resale I presume.

Secondly, do you or anyone else have an idea of the cost for the billet uprights from Radical? Have you looked at the design that Hans Bliss posted here cnc-uprights? Thoughts? 

Thanks,

Jay


   
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DavidF
(@davidf)
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Posted by: @bird

Would a SRX be able to compete in Radical Cup with a self designed car halo?

Pardon me for jumping in …

 

No, a self modification of the chassis for halo on an SR3 RSX is not permitted for Radical Cup racing.  The provision for halo update to the RSX chassis requires refitting with an updated 2022 chassis, Radical halo parts kit, and prior approval from the factory.  


   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@davidf Thanks David, exactly what I thought. As Rod specified, I think removing the 2 down tubes and replacing them with an engineered halo like he talked about would work fine. Then you could just put the originals back on for resale or competition in Radical Cup. Any thoughts on the billet uprights I asked about? Thanks.

Jay


   
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DavidF
(@davidf)
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@bird 

I don’t recall the exact explanation, but I asked Jonathan from Group A racing the same question.  He believes it is better to stay with the original steel uprights because of overall cost and some other reason like weight savings or fitment.  I will ask him again but his advice is always reliable.  

i plan to stay with the original uprights.  He also says that he runs temperature strips on his upright to detect overheating which indicates it is time to swap an upright 


   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@davidf Thanks David. I am confused as to what would cause the uprights to "overheat". I am talking about the "spindles" for the wheels. Are we on the same topic? Thanks.

Jay


   
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DavidF
(@davidf)
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@bird 

I think we are on the same topic.  The uprights begin to overheat when the bearings start to go bad.  In the steel uprights I am pretty sure it is not possible to swap just the bearing whereas the billet uprights you can and do swap the bearings when they go bad. 


   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@davidf Wow! What a horrible design! Such a well-designed car in so many other areas. How did they fail with that?  What is the cost of a steel upright? What is the cost of the new billet upright? Thanks David. 

Jay


   
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DavidF
(@davidf)
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@bird 

I will find out dealer prices for you and report back but might take a day or two.

 

Well, the car has been around over 25 years.  Along the way the factory has made incremental improvements.  There is no perfect platform.  Some cars are bulletproof, low cost and boring (e.g. Spec Racer Ford formerly Sports Renault), and on the other extreme are some are very high performance cars but cost a fortune to buy and run.  Radical is good performance; parts are kind of expensive, but not nearly as expensive as most GT and prototype car parts.  

 

I raced Spec Miata for a year and I hated doing maintenance on that car.  IIRC, the upright or more correct the hub/knuckle which has the bearing in it, lasts for two just race weekends and then the whole thing needs to be replaced.  The rotors last as long as the brake pads.  

 


   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@davidf Thank you David. I am very interested in the replacement cost for the steel spindle and the upgrade for the billet. I started out racing 30 years ago in a Legend Race Car. They had steel spindles that proved to ultimately be a weak point, but you could at least replace the bearings in them. Those spindles were used for nearly 20 years before the series upgraded them to a similar billet style spindle. 

I am seriously very impressed with the engineering of this car. Having just purchased one. I obviously don’t have a lot of experience with purchasing replacement parts. As you stated I have heard they tend to be expensive. I look forward to hearing back from you. Thank you again David.

Jay


   
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Trevor Poquette
(@tmpoquette)
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The maintenance interval for the uprights is 40 hrs, correct? Thought the reason was because welds can start cracking.  The bearings definitely make sense.

I replaced mine when I bought the car.  I had WISKO go through the whole thing and fix/repair/replace anything that was past its cycle or worn.  Each upright was $1069 and $400 labor to replace all of them.  That was in 2020, not sure where the prices are now.


   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@tmpoquette Thanks Trevor. $4,100 for uprights is a crazy price for something that lasts only 40 hours. Do you know the cost of the billet ones that will last "forever" and you can change out the bearings in a normal way. Thanks.

Jay


   
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DavidF
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I spoke to Jonathan today and asked about uprights.  Cost for original steel uprights for SR3 are about $1100 each.  Cost for Billets about $1500.  Yes, the lifing for the original uprights is about 40 hours of track time or according to the user manual 6000km -- if you drive 80 km/h average speed then you can stretch the interval to 75 hours of track time.  😀   But seriously, I think if you use the temperature strips to detect a bearing that is overheating then you can replace as needed instead of a set interval with the caveat that you keep a very close eye on the uprights for indications of imminent failure (like chipped powder coat and cracks). 

 

The reason Jonathan prefers the original uprights over the billet uprights for SR3 is that the billets are 8 pounds heavier each.  They permit a larger rotor, but this is not really necessary on an SR3 and (bigger rotors) are not legal in Radical Cup competition, so there is a negative performance advantage with the billet uprights.

 

The billet uprights are bulletproof, and will probably last forever, but that means that instead of the upright absorbing impact during a collision, the wishbones and chassis absorbes more of the force.  In my opinion (and Jonathan's), the best choice for SR3 is the original uprights -- replaced as needed.

 

I am not an authority on this matter, so please discuss and make your own judgment as safety is a factor for this decision.


   
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Trevor Poquette
(@tmpoquette)
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Almost everything Radical price wise is crazy to me.  Seems like they have a 3x rule.  The fuel pump was about 3x the cost of any OEM motorcycle fuel pump.  The starter is about 2.5 to 3xs the cost of a Suzuki oem unit.  You can get knock offs for about $65, I've been using those.  Or have the spin safe clutch and not break the starter.

They are just plate stock steel welded boxed uprights.  They fatigue crack for sure, I've seen it.  The manual says 40 hrs.  Originally, I did have one ten year old upright on the rear though.  So, I think close inspection for cracks yearly would be a good idea.  I'm not sure how long the bearings last, you have to replace them anyway at that point.

The CNC uprights were made for this reason.  Search the forum, some guy was selling them, I'm pretty sure the price was about the same but a much longer life span before replacing.


   
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Jay Sant
(@bird)
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@davidf Thanks David. I spoke with James a Radical in the UK yesterday. He told me they were phasing out the original uprights. The billet ones were designed because of safety concerns for the SR10. He confirmed everything Jonathan said regarding weight and he discussed their durability passing impact load to the suspension and ultimately chassis instead of failing at the upright and saving other parts of the car. He said they are close to having a cast version with replaceable bearings that he feels will be a compromise between the two. Maybe Jonathan will have more insight on that for us.

Jay


   
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